simonejester: "sodomy non sapiens = buggered if I know" ([text] sodomy non sapiens)
Some real gems from [info]antitheism ...

[info]vijeno with the OP:

I have often heard the stance that god is "greater than reason", so even if the claim of god's existence is unfalsifiable and therefore unscientific, everyone can happily believe whatever. After all, Ockam's razor only applies in science, so why bother...

Are there any refutations to this claim? Pointers, perhaps...?

Thanks.

Some of the *awesome* replies...

  • [info]bill_sheehan : The person making that very silly statement doesn't really believe what he's saying, and you can prove it by saying, "God says to give me all your money."

    What do you mean, no he didn't? How do you know? Surely you're not relying on your fallible human reason...


  • [info]rdmiller3 : If God is greater than reason, then he could certainly manage to make sense if he wanted to.

    Apparently, God doesn't want reasonable people to believe in him.


  • [info]westonlockley : You'll just have to believe because bible bible bile. Or get out of my country flag flag flag.


  • [info]eonen : Refutations?

    How about, "Prove it"?

    Or possibly, "What's the difference between believing in god against reason and just making up a god with your imagination?"


And my personal favorite...

[info]j_brisby : If God is greater than reason, then kumquats sing greener porn tractor James Dean.

and the reply from the OP...

[info]vijeno : Your wrong. Kumquats definitely wear thongs as joyous as lighted blue mineral water, though.
simonejester: ([other] lite-brite)
Dear st_secular,

I only know you from Twitter, and not all that well. I assumed that the "secular" in your username denoted either religion snark or non-belief. Clearly, assuming only makes an ass out of me. I'm sorry for assuming you were a fellow atheist, because that's why I replied to you as if you were a fellow non-believer. If I'd known you were a believer, I'd have put the comment in more diplomatic terms.

Sincerely,

Simone Jester, who meant no harm.

Edit: I took away the second part because koken23 apologized, and because I keep my promises.
simonejester: ([other] lite-brite)
I'm an atheist who sees the "Religious Right" and its power and worries, especially as the Democrats, instead of embracing reason, have gone out of their way to show off their religious (and nearly always American-style Christian) bona-fides. Don't get me wrong, I acknowledge the good in religion, but the most hard-core believers in government and pulling the strings of government are trying to do harm, and sometimes they succeed. Just look at gay marriage and adoption bans and restrictions on abortion. All in the name of "God."

And, yes, I worry about President Obama receiving spiritual counseling when it comes to affairs of state. (Personal matters are none of my business and I don't think it's stupid to take comfort in one's faith in times of hardship, especially when it's all one has. I think it's false comfort, but that's my opinion and this post isn't being made to persuade, it's being made to inform.) He's already said that because of his religion, he supports civil unions for same-sex couples but not marriage equality. As an atheist and as a queer, I have the right to worry about that.

Fizzy: then treat others as you would wish to be treated. Mutual respect, without the assumption that the person you're talking to is somehow ignorant for believing as they do
me: I do treat people that way.
Fizzy: not this time you haven't
me: Just because I believe something doesn't mean I'm going to treat people different.
I'm still listening politely to your argument.
I give your words the weight they deserve.
Whenever I get into a debate about religion, I listen carefully to the argument.
Fizzy: and yet still telling me I'm easily fooled, liking a story that makes less sense than Harry Potter
me: Not easily. You're a smart person, and religious arguments have evolved too.
So there must have been something good to convince you in the face of all evidence to the contrary.
I know a guy who did quantum physics before quitting when he got saved to go to seminary.
You don't have to be stupid to be a believer, nor vice versa.
Sent at 9:15 PM on Thursday
me: I have never, ever said that being a believer automatically made one stupid, nor will I ever.
Because I do not believe that.

Fizzy: say exactly what you just told me, you may be able to stop yourself getting into trouble
me: I will.
I don't see faith (defined here as belief without proof) in a conscious higher power as reasonable, or rational. This is my personal opinion and belief. It is open to reasoned debate. And you can ask Fizzy--when corrected, I change my mind and say so. She's corrected me often enough.

some science )
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